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 VS 2019 async loading changes
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alex.postlethwaite
Senior Member

35 Posts

Posted - Apr 16 2019 :  05:18:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,

I know (as a fellow VS extension developer) that the requirement to change to an Async Package and be loaded at the whim of VS is nothing you guys have control over.

However, the end user experience seems to be worse at the moment.

Typically I open a solution, know where I want to go and use "Open File in Solution" to go there.

In VS 2019, this typically results in my pressing Ctrl-Alt-O over and over again until VS decides it's idle enough to load and initialise the VAX package to be able to respond to the command. It's dead time and I think I preferred synchronous loading in this case, since then I know my key press will be responded to, because it's probably queued up behind the loads. Now, I just have to keep repeating myself until the IDE responds.

There also seem to be several seconds after the IDE has loaded and is responsive, where I can open the VAssistX menu and all items are greyed out (presumably waiting to be initialised).

If you have any weight in the discussions and design of these features as an MS partner, maybe you could tell them that it'd be nice for the user to decide.

If I could mark "responsible" packages in the extensions menu somehow and allow them to be synchronously loaded/loaded immediately upon IDE open, I'd be pretty happy with that.

Or maybe the command routing tables could be loaded more quickly, and then the package is loaded on demand immediately when the command is executed.

Finally, if you could push back on the change to create a top level Extensions menu, and break my muscle memory for keyboard shortcuts (Alt-X, T, S to sort lines was something I used all the time, now it's Alt-X, X, T, S) that would be appreciated.

Alex

feline
Whole Tomato Software

United Kingdom
15984 Posts

Posted - Apr 16 2019 :  08:04:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Some of these points have already come up:

https://forums.wholetomato.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16550

and this is where people have been requesting that extensions get top level menus:

https://developercommunity.visualstudio.com/idea/435711/get-rid-of-new-extensions-menu.html

zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness
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sean
Whole Tomato Software

USA
2641 Posts

Posted - Apr 16 2019 :  3:05:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We have zero weight in design of such changes. That was the case even before the Visual Studio Partner Program was eliminated last fall.

The next VA update, due soon, will be 100% async loaded which is not the case in the current public release (hence the yellow bar warning re: use of deprecated APIs). When your solution loads, are any text editors automatically opened with the solution, or does it come up empty?

Please, don't get me started on the extensions menu... I've been dreading it since Oct 2018 when they first notified partners. I pushed back personally but they are believers in their observations that apparently supported the change ("Your menu opens on Alt+X? It's only an extra press of 'X' for your users to get the menu.").
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alex.postlethwaite
Senior Member

35 Posts

Posted - Apr 17 2019 :  08:29:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

Some of these points have already come up:



Yeah, it was me who reported the 'similarly named commands at top level' issue. It broke some of my extensions!
(https://developercommunity.visualstudio.com/content/problem/436356/unable-to-distinguish-between-similarly-named-comm.html)

Thankfully that one actually seems to have been fixed. Most other stuff seems to fall on deaf ears.

quote:
Originally posted by sean

We have zero weight in design of such changes. That was the case even before the Visual Studio Partner Program was eliminated last fall.



I get it. I've given up posting on developercommunity.com because actually getting the issues understood and acknowledged by anyone on the development team is hell (case in point https://developercommunity.visualstudio.com/content/problem/481681/error-reporting-max-source-layout-length.html).

quote:

The next VA update, due soon, will be 100% async loaded ...



Okay. I'll see if things change then.

quote:

When your solution loads, are any text editors automatically opened with the solution, or does it come up empty?



It's empty.

I have both
"Reopen documents on solution load"
and
"Restore Solution Explorer project hierarchy state on solution load"

disabled, to try improve startup time.

My solution is 94 projects (mix of static librarys and executables).

quote:

Please, don't get me started on the extensions menu... I've been dreading it since Oct 2018 when they first notified partners. I pushed back personally but they are believers in their observations that apparently supported the change ("Your menu opens on Alt+X? It's only an extra press of 'X' for your users to get the menu.").



Sad to hear.

I think you can go ahead and close the topic, I've got no issues with VAX, just the environment it's hosted in :)
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sean
Whole Tomato Software

USA
2641 Posts

Posted - Apr 17 2019 :  11:34:12 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
With async load, startup will be faster but there will be more waiting for things to come online after startup appears to have finished. If the solution loads with an open file, more components will be ready sooner, but startup won't be as quick.

In the next VA release, we print out "Visual Assist extension loaded" in the status bar when the main component has been loaded. Also in the next release, more commands in the VA menu will initially be enabled even before the extension has loaded. During that state before VA has loaded, invoking one of those commands will force VA to load, but at this point, the command will not exec and will require a retry.
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Mnemonic
Junior Member

Czech Republic
15 Posts

Posted - Apr 17 2019 :  12:12:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sean
The next VA update, due soon


Sorry for hijacking the thread, but just a quick question: will this update re-enable C# support in VS2019? Thanks.
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sean
Whole Tomato Software

USA
2641 Posts

Posted - Apr 17 2019 :  12:24:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry, no change to C# listboxes in the coming update (case=137431). The main VS2019 issues addressed in next release are async package load which breaks VA in 16.1 and Step Filter support for the out-of-process debug symbols feature added in 16.0. We'll be investigating listboxes for the following update.
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feline
Whole Tomato Software

United Kingdom
15984 Posts

Posted - Apr 17 2019 :  12:26:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Are you having any problems in C# apart from the listboxes?

zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness
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Mnemonic
Junior Member

Czech Republic
15 Posts

Posted - Apr 17 2019 :  2:46:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm not really using VS2019 yet (apart from some tests), I'm waiting for full VA support. Unfortunately the lack of VA snippets in list boxes is a showstopper for me, so I'm sticking with VS2017 for now.
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feline
Whole Tomato Software

United Kingdom
15984 Posts

Posted - Apr 17 2019 :  3:20:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I know it is not the same, but if you map a keyboard shortcut to the command VAssistX.VaSnippetInsert you can trigger the VA Insert Snippet menu in C#, but you will still need to find and insert the desired snippet manually.

Perhaps helpful when passing through VS2019, to make things a bit easier.

zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness
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Mnemonic
Junior Member

Czech Republic
15 Posts

Posted - Apr 18 2019 :  01:31:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you. Like you said, it's not the same :) But definitely better than nothing.
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alex.postlethwaite
Senior Member

35 Posts

Posted - Apr 18 2019 :  04:07:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sean

With async load, startup will be faster but there will be more waiting for things to come online after startup appears to have finished.



I guess I just don't understand this at all.

Obviously my ultimate preference was it was just quick and responsive, but I'd rather have something slow(er) and predictable, than quick at getting to a "false ready" state, and then bring other features online unpredictably. Again, complaints about the IDE, not VAX.

quote:

In the next VA release, we print out "Visual Assist extension loaded" in the status bar when the main component has been loaded.



I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I have the status bar turned off.
But to be clear, I'm not making a feature request. I think the status bar is the right place for this, and I'm fine with the justification that it's my decision to have turned it off.

quote:

During that state before VA has loaded, invoking one of those commands will force VA to load, but at this point, the command will not exec and will require a retry.



Any idea whether it could just be made to work without a retry in the future?
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sean
Whole Tomato Software

USA
2641 Posts

Posted - Apr 18 2019 :  3:23:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We'll certainly revisit it in response to feedback sent our way. Some users might not notice the delay at all. For example, if a user has a VA tool window like VA Outline open at startup, that will prompt more immediate load of the main VA package (as opposed to VS waiting for a period of inactivity to load the package).
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sean
Whole Tomato Software

USA
2641 Posts

Posted - Apr 19 2019 :  11:07:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
case=112957 was for async load (deprecated API yellow bar in VS2019)
case=112957 is fixed in build 2331
https://support.wholetomato.com/default.asp?W404#2331
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sean
Whole Tomato Software

USA
2641 Posts

Posted - Apr 24 2019 :  4:19:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A new extension for VS2019 has been published to the VS Marketplace that allows you to move extension menus out of the Extensions menu back into the main menu:
https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=Evgeny.RestoreExtensions

You are not able to specify the position of the moved menu.

By default, alt+x does not open the VA menu since 'X' is the access key for both VAssistX and Extensions.
You can edit access key for Extensions: Tools | Customize | Commands
Menu bar: Menu Bar
Select "Extensions" in Preview
Press "Modify Selection"
Either delete '&' or move it to another character.
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alex.postlethwaite
Senior Member

35 Posts

Posted - May 15 2019 :  10:37:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sean

A new extension for VS2019 has been published to the VS Marketplace that allows you to move extension menus out of the Extensions menu back into the main menu:
https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=Evgeny.RestoreExtensions

You are not able to specify the position of the moved menu.

By default, alt+x does not open the VA menu since 'X' is the access key for both VAssistX and Extensions.
You can edit access key for Extensions: Tools | Customize | Commands
Menu bar: Menu Bar
Select "Extensions" in Preview
Press "Modify Selection"
Either delete '&' or move it to another character.



I tried this and it works well, thanks.
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